We meet Aurel Bacs, one of the most important and interesting figures in the world of collectible and investment watches. We do so on the occasion of the Milan preview of the "Mondani" auction, the second single-issue auction after the one held in 2006: then it was a real event for the world of watch collecting. Today everything has changed, even and especially collecting, and Phillips in collaboration with Bacs & Russo offers a new important sale within which we find the collection of the famous "editor": The Geneva Watch Auction: XIX - Featuring the Guido Mondani Collection - Geneva May 11-12, 2024 .
Aurel what has changed between 2006 and 2024?
"Eighteen years have passed, and I think these are two different Guido Mondani's. The first was an 'adventurer' discovering a collecting world that was still being defined. In that famous auction he presented 309 watches for sale, all of which, moreover, went on sale."
Today?
"On May 11 we will offer first and foremost the watches that Guido Mondani at the first sale did not want or could not "leave," often for exclusively "sentimental" reasons. The best example is his very dear wife's Rolex Cosmograph Daytona Ref. 6269, or his very personal Rolex Ref. 6036 "Jean-Claude Killy" Chronograph in rose gold. In addition to that we will also present pieces that he, a collector and enthusiast, has continued to buy in the years since that sale. Guido's life today has totally changed from the past, his daughter who was then a child today has become a professional, but also a mother and wife. Everything is different except the basic principles of everything he does."
What are these principles?
"Quality, study, the solidity of a collector who does not like to make qualitative compromises for the pieces he wants to own." You are a man of synthesis, so how might we distinguish the 2006 auction from today's? "Let's steal the idea from the movies: the first was Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark, the second the current Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny, one the natural continuation of the other."
How has the world of collecting changed? Having exhausted the speculative moment, has it returned to its real value?
"Good question. I am glad that the market is back in the hands of collectors and no longer in the hands of those who only wanted to make a quick profit: the so-called "speculators," a mixture of speculators and collectors. Of course to make an assessment of what happened between 2020 and 2022 one has to consider that it was a special and in many ways unique period: zero or negative bank interest, little availability of new watches for sale due to the closure of manufactures for Covid, substantial inability to use money for personal pleasures such as travel or parties... then inflation at record levels. All this contributed to an extremely favorable situation for investing and sometimes even speculating on the hands. The same thing happened in the automotive world, when a Ferrari went from 20 to 40 million in value overnight. The same thing happened in the art world, when some works doubled in value for no apparent reason."
A good thing?
"No. As far as the world of watches is concerned, it is not something I love. I prefer that a watch does not double its value overnight, but rather that I have the serenity of knowing that in the next 20 years its value will either remain intact or go up by 5 percent. I don't see why a collector's item should be treated like a Bitcoin: stability side by side with regular growth is a much healthier and fairer situation for everyone."
There was a time when the market seemed to go crazy.
"In 2022 at one point I didn't know how much a Nautilus or a Royal Oak could really be worth. Today we are definitely much "healthier," we've done a little detox: it's normal, if you party until five in the morning, that the next day you need a little rest and reflection (smiling) even to remember what really happened the night before!"
What do you consider to be the biggest reason for interest in this 2024 that has just begun?
"One important example out of all: this morning we just closed an online auction in Hong Kong. The extraordinary thing, in addition to the still important economic result, is that we counted over 1,100 participants, from all over the world, often including young people. This shows that the love for the collector's watch is not only as strong as previous years, but globally even stronger."
The famous collector Auro Montanari, speaking about independents in one of his interviews said, "Auction houses have to make turnover, and at that time the market wanted independents: it's normal that they chose to go down this road as well." You have been a proponent of the success of independent watchmaking, what do you have to say about that?
"Officially I reject this comment, as by our philosophy we do not seek turnover as much as seller and buyer satisfaction: I accept that Phillips has been a kind of "ambassador" for the world of independents but-unfortunately-Phillips is the product of many different souls and inspirations."
What do you think, then, of independent watchmakers?
"Back in two thousand, in the world of the very early forums, when people said Urwerk looked like a blender and thought Philippe Dufour was a cream for a spa ... our Alexandre Ghotbi acted like a real explorer: he would go to the Vallée de Joux, with the snow a meter high, to visit the ateliers of these real geniuses, artisans of traditional watchmaking, but also innovators in both mechanics and aesthetics. From Alex I learned everything I know about them. Of course, there are a couple of independents that I propose with great pleasure but, as I have repeatedly said, I am not one to blindly adhere to a single absolute truth. I can propose an Omega as a Patek Philippe, a Rolex as an independent, a gold as a platinum, a steel, a small, a large, a titanium... my curiosity "part" takes off when I see a beautiful, quality watch, regardless of all other considerations."
How would you define the positioning of independents within the world of Haute Horlogerie?
"They are credited with fusing together vintage and modern, taking from the two worlds what they could best express: on the one hand there was the substantial "craftsmanship" of so many vintage models and on the other the precision of current production. They ideally filled the gap in craftsmanship, creating a market and a community that was not there."
Recently in the watch auction industry, particularly in light of the events of Only Watch-which, incidentally, does not involve you either directly or indirectly-do you think a question of legitimacy has arisen?
"Absolutely not, quite the contrary. Importantly, an auction is the most transparent and public form of transaction in existence. If we were looking for a comparison, we could equate it to a Champions League soccer final, where even the slightest gesture, such as a soccer player scratching his eyebrow, is captured in close-up, zoomed in and scrutinized in minute detail. Hundreds of cameras, thousands of cell phones, are ready to capture whatever event happens. The same happens during auctions."
Out of the auctions?
"I think the saying 'You don't buy the watch; you buy the vendor' always remains alive. Whether it's an auction house, a dealer, a collector, every relationship is first and foremost based on trust and people. Everything else is a direct consequence of that."
One last question: do you still enjoy doing your job? Aren't you tired of always living in the spotlight of the aforementioned Champions final, where if during an auction you scratch from right to left, rather than left to right, there will be someone in Timbuktu ready to make controversy
(smiling) "Absolutely yes, I still have fun. Watches have accompanied me for 42 years, so for 80 percent of my life, and I have fun with both watches and collectors. Of course, it's not all easy: when you go to eat in the finest starred restaurant at the end you still have to then pay the bill, not only economically but also trivially with the physical weight that increases after a sumptuous tiramisu. Getting serious again, it is certainly not fun to read budgets, do performance reviews, and do marketing strategies, however I do them. Of course, what I do enjoy is the relationship with the collectors, and it's also what pushes me forward every day."
